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80 MPG Carburetors - RF Cafe Forums
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Kirt Blattenberger
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Post subject: 80 MPG Carburetors
Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 5:41 pm
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Site Admin |
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Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003
2:02 pm Posts: 451 Location: Erie, PA
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Greetings:
I just had a phone conversation
with a guy regarding the price of oil/gas and the
topic turned to some of the stories that used to
circulate about garage inventors developing carburetors
that got 80 miles per gallon out of a big block
Chevy engine, or a home furnace modification that
allowed heating an entire home in Maine for an entire
winter using only 50 gallons of oil. Mechanic Illustrated
and Popular Science and other magazines of the day
regularly reported on such inventions. Conspiracy
theorists reckoned that Big Oil and Big Auto routinely
dispatched their men in trench coats to silence
those who might threaten their empires.
While
it certainly does seem than in 2005, we should have
cars getting better than 50 mpg (other than hybrids),
it is difficult to believe that the kinds of shenanigans
proposed by the conspiracy theorists would have
been unexposed to this day. Does anyone else remember
these stories, and if so, do you believe them or
think they’re bunk?
.
_________________ - Kirt Blattenberger
RF Cafe Progenitor & Webmaster
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Graham |
Post subject:
Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 7:11 pm
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Colonel |
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Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2005
7:25 pm Posts: 43 Location: Hampshire UK
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I have a Peugeot 406 2.1 litre turbodiesel. Like
all modern diesels, it is refined enough that you
don't notice its a diesel until it idles.
If I foot it hard, the consumption gets as bad
as 40MPG. If I go careful, it can get as good as
48MPG. To get this right, I think we have to figure
the fact that a US gallon is not the same as a 8-pint
UK gallon. I don't know the record is, but it is
bound to be in some feeble vehicle I would struggle
to put on (as opposed to get into)!
When
a resource gets scarce, the scamsters are out in
force. I don't know what its like in US, but here
we have the "Sale of Goods Act" which goes a long
way to ensure that goods are fit for purpose. A
famous advertising slogan here said "It does exactly
what it says on the tin!
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Dave |
Post subject: 80 mpg carb on a Jubig block
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 9:42 pm
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"Stories" are unreliable and most always unrepeatablle
due to the lack of experimental controls. For example,
was the storyteller monitoring mileage continuously
and reported the maximum MPG observed while decending
a hill? Its possible to get 80MPG in a big block
that way. The computer doesn't know your car is
getting gravity assist. This was one of the ways
those old 8 cyl to 4 cyl conversion kits were marketed.
You could put a big block on a go-cart with thin
tires and observe a huge increase in fuel economy.
But these details are never mentioned in "stories"...
too easy to prove the B.S.
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erikthehalfabee |
Post subject: heard about it
Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 2:19 pm
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hey, i work in the USAF-- I met a sergeant who recieved
the job of doing research to find out if a number
of these "stories" were true or not... for military
interests. His research led him across the path
of a man who invented such a carbureator that accomplished
50 mpg on
a big block chevy 350. He also said that after tests
were done etc., (this was in the 60s) the gov't
purchased the design and filed it away, never to
be seen again. He also spoke of a number of other
such instances, most of which involved oil giants
such as Exxon/Mobile paying people off, or simply
purchasing the rights to amazing inventions etc.
and keeping them under wraps so as not to lose the
huge amounts of money that they make every single
minute. Do you know how much they (exxon/mobile,
shell, etc.) make in profit every day? how much
oil they sell? Oil is used for EVERYTHING. I
don't have any naive ideas about the gov't being
so clean and well run to discard the idea that they
would sacrifice the environment to achieve a higher
GNP by the end of the year. Is it so hard to believe
that a giant corporation would do the same?
what about the fact that the 40mpg engine was
produced back in the 60s, my honda in the 80s had
350 thousand miles on it and still got better milage
than my 2005 hyundai! that car was produced 20 years
ago! Are you telling me that technology just stopped
and people couldn't figure out how to get better
than 40? try finding a new car that is not a hybrid
that even gets 40! maybe 1 or 2 even exist!
thanks for reading
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Kirt Blattenberger
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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:22 pm
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Site Admin |
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Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003
2:02 pm Posts: 451 Location: Erie, PA
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Greetings erikthehalfabee:
Although I believe
it is fully possible that many of the high-mileage
carbs and/or fuel injector systems have been hidden
away for the benefit of the big oil companies, it
is hard to believe that evidence of these long-forgotten
items would not have re-surfaced by now. As mentioned
earlier, with the freedom of information dissemination
available on the Internet and affordable private
presses, you would think by now if such inventions
did exist, they would be all over the news today.
Furthermore, by now if such breakthrough fuel
efficiencies were possible, there would be totally,
and radically new designs posted on websites all
over. Even if the originator didn't want information
made public, the over abundance of leakers worldwide
would have made at least something newsworth available.
BTW, my 1996 Mazda Protege routinely get around
38 mpg. It is a 1.4 L powerhouse (not).
Also,
I don't believe the 350 was a big block V8; I think
the big blocks were started at around 396 CID. My
'69 and '72 Camaros both had small block 350s.
_________________ - Kirt Blattenberger
RF Cafe Progenitor & Webmaster
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erikthehalfabee |
Post subject: stuff
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 6:09 pm
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you are right about the 350,and also the fact that
stuff should have been leaked by now... but how
is it that the average mpg for a car has not really
increased (not including hybrids) in the last 20
years? And concerning hybrids: my friend bought
one just last month. The car (a honda) gets 50mpg
at best. That is ridiculous if you ask me. I met
a guy who had a prius and after a little modding
had the milage up to 70. What is the deal??
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Graham |
Post subject:
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 6:04 pm
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Colonel |
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Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2005
7:25 pm Posts: 43 Location: Hampshire UK
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Mercedes Benz do OK - 59.46 MPG in a E320CDI
http://www.carpages.co.uk/mercedes_benz ... -07-05.asp
Then - Peugeot 407 HDi gets 81.64 MPG average
on a long run
http://motoring.timesofmalta.com/article.php?id=694
Here in UK we have the most expensive fuel in
the world, with variously motivated beliefs among
those that govern us that it OK to tax personal
mobility to the point traffic is reduced to a conscience
salving level while at the same time delivering
a huge financial bung wrung out of the remainder.
More than 70% of our fuel charge is tax! A litre
(thats 2.2 pints!) of fuel here costs between 0.96
and 1.04 UK pounds depending on where you are. Diesel
is much cheaper to produce, but is then taxed to
beyond the price of unleaded on the grounds it is
"dirty". In fact, modern diesels produce *less*
pollutants than petrol cars. As for "hybrid"
cars, or any other electric variant, I shall only
be impressed when the makers can assure us that
all the electric component did not start out at
some point as fossil fuel burning in some power
station somewhere, and was then converted and stored
and shoved about with varying efficiency at all
stages before it finally ended up heating the brake
discs. This sort of stuff represents a bigger contribution
to global warming than if we put the fuel in a good
engine in the first place. The whole thing
about fuel is the hydrogen in it. It needs to join
oxygen to release the energy and go back to water.
Unfortunately, in most fuels, the hydrogen is only
available locked onto a load of carbons, which will
make CO2 as the price of getting joined with oxygen.
I guess some futuristic fusion-powered tokomak working
hard to split sea water into hydrogen and oxygen
so we can have a (dangerous!) personal mobility
fuel is how to save the planet. Then again.. is
hydrogen any more dangerous than petrol.. ? Hmm..
maybe!
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Mike |
Post subject:
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 4:02 pm
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Charles |
Post subject: Market forces
Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 11:19 am
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Regardingthe discussion of ultra high efficiency
automobiles: Since all fuels have a specific energy
content, i.e. btu per pound or kilo of fuel, it
follows that there is a limit to how much work can
be performed by a given quantity of fuel. Even at
efficiencies approaching 100%, the claims of urban
legend tales of owners being able to drive for weeks
at a time are obvious fancy.
More practically,
we (collectively) who willingly purchase huge, truck
based, vehicles have only ourselves to blame. The
auto companies built more of these fuel guzzling
behemoths because we bought them. It is easier to
raise the price of a larger vehicle by adding superficial
luxuries of little substance, meaning it is easier
to sell them profitably. R & D is costly, and
the payoff comes with large quantity sales of the
developed vehicles. If there is little demand for
high efficiency vehicles, it is easy to understand
why there is little incentive to develop them. Of
course the laws of physics apply here as elsewhere;
reducing fuel comsumption is best aided by reducing
the workload. Lighter vehicles, narrower tires,
more aerodynamic bodies all contribute to better
economy, as do more conservative driving habits.
Being able to make a vehicle lighter yet maintain
comfort and safety are serious challenges, as is
the conflict between tire adhesion required for
safe handling and reduced rolling resistance required
for maximum efficiency. Then there are driving habits,
perhaps the fairest input of all, as they apply
regardless of economic or social background. When
gas prices spiked at the end of the past summer
I consciously reduced my normal highway cruising
speed, immediately improving average fuel consumption
by about 10%. If more of us paid more attention
to driving habits, watching ahead and making small,
incremental adjustments rather than braking and
accelerating at high rates, we would all see significant
increases in fuel mileage without changing vehicles.
I suggest, however, that no one stop breathing while
waiting for that day....
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Werner |
Post subject: Re: Market forces
Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 5:22 am
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Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006
5:14 am Posts: 1 |
What about the possibility of using alcohol fuels,
methanol in particular? One of the problems is to
find ways to stop governments from controlling our
activities always on their terms as if everyone
was a child.
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nubbage |
Post subject: 80MPG Carburetors
Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 10:50 am
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General |
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Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006
12:07 pm Posts: 236 Location: London UK
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Regarding Methanol power, forget it. I saw a
university survey on energy 2 years ago that calculated
we would need to cultivate high ethanol crops on
70% of the land surface of the world just to power
the vehicles in existence 2 years ago. With Chinese
people demanding autos by the million per week,
the demand for land to cultivate rape oil plants
would exceed the entire earth's surface.
Hydrogen wrapped up in Boron Hydride or Ammonium
Borates will be the winner. You heard it first on
this channel.
BTW, someone once showed me
a diesel engine used as an agricultural saw-mill
driver that you switched over the input to the injectors
to a part diesel part water feed. The theory was,
once the temperature of the block exceeded a threshold,
the water vapour pressure increased the fuel efficiency
dramatically.
More logs per gallon
Trev
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Posted 11/12/2012
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