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Reading AMR RF signal... possible? - RF Cafe Forums
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s_mack
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Post subject: Reading AMR RF signal... possible?
Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 1:12 pm
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Joined: Thu May 20, 2010
1:03 pm Posts: 4 |
Hello. I found this forum via Google. First,
let me preface that I know litterally next to nothing
about RF. I am by no means an engineer. I'm not
even a related hobyist. I'm a guy that wants to
do something specific and I want to know if you
people (that know a lot more about RF) think this
is possible, and perhaps help me gauge what might
be required. In many homes these days, we
have RF water meters commonly associated with the
acronym "AMR" or Automatic Water Metering ( wikipedia
entry). The gist of it is that the meter has
an RF antennae and broadcasts some data (presumably
the serial number and meter reading) at some interval.
The utility company can then drive around and read
the meter without getting out and without having
to gain access to the home. I want to be
able to read that meter too. I can get on my hands
and knees and manually look at it with a flashlight,
but it is very inconvenient. In an attempt to reduce
my water usage (we live in a semi-desert) I would
like to view the data on my computer. I can develop
the rudimentary software to make use of the data
for my purposes.... I just don't have any clue how
to read the meter electronically (wirelessly).
I searched in hopes that there were generic
readers out there, hopefully with a PC interface,
but I found very little. These have been around
a long while, but it seems not too many people have
any desire to read them. I did find one chinese
website that lists "water meter reader module" but
that's it. I've contacted them a couple of weeks
ago, but no response. Any thoughts?
- Steven
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s_mack |
Post subject: Re: Reading AMR RF signal... possible?
Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 2:19 pm
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Joined: Thu May 20, 2010
1:03 pm Posts: 4 |
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Kirt Blattenberger
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Post subject: Re: Reading AMR RF signal... possible?
Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 9:09 pm
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Site Admin |
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Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003
2:02 pm Posts: 451 Location: Erie, PA
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s_mack wrote:
How remarkably helpful.
Greetings s_mack: I sent a note to an
AMR expert I know to address your question, but
he's on vacation through Monday. My personal
experience, having worked on an AMR system back
in the early 1990s (Enscan/Itron, in the 900MHz
ISM band), is that the RF transponders on the meters
only respond to a properly encoded interrogation
signal, and then respond with an encrypted consumption
message. A 3rd-party reading system would have to
be privy to the encryption key, which was unlikely
at the time. Maybe things have changed since then,
but I doubt it.
_________________ - Kirt Blattenberger
RF Cafe Progenitor & Webmaster
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s_mack |
Post subject: Re: Reading AMR RF signal... possible?
Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 2:50 am
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Joined: Thu May 20, 2010
1:03 pm Posts: 4 |
Thanks for your reply. I have since learned
a couple of things. First, while the system
does use a pseudo-spread spectrum signal, it is
not at all for encryption but rather for reliability.
The algorithm is in fact published by the patent
holder and is used across various brands which are
interoperable. Second, there are some systems
that require a wake-up signal but it seems most
modern ones (including this one) does not. It broadcasts
every 14 seconds whether or not anyone is listening.
There's supposedly an Opensource (ish) project
in the works, but if you go to their site right
now ( www.openamr.org)
you'll see its down at least for the moment so who
knows where that's at. I'd still like to
do something, however in my research since posting
I now know I can't do what I'd like to do, even
if I could establish communication. I was hoping
for a practically real-time setup so that, for example,
I could flush my toilet and see on my computer some
14 seconds later that the toilet flushed (based
on expected volume). Unfortunately it can't work
like that. While it does broadcast every 14 seconds,
it updates WHAT is broadcasts only once every hour.
So it can't be as useful as I'd hoped, no matter
what. But I'd still like to get somewhere on this.
- Steven
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spreadspcowboy |
Post subject: Re: Reading AMR RF signal... possible?
Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 12:20 pm
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Kirt, were correct in your response. Everything
is encoded, encrypted and secure these days. It's
going to be pretty darned difficult for someone
to read that meter if it has state of the art software
in it. Even if one were to go to the trouble of
de-spreading, demodulating, etc, the signal and
collecting the bits, chances are, they may be encrypted
in some fashion. Most utilities (and your
government) want these smart meters, whatever they
measure, to be highly secure. Then there
is how the meter is read. Is it a drive by poll-respond
system? If so, pinging the meter by a customer would
limit the battery life of the meter which may not
be desired by the utility. There are movements
afoot, which promise what the poster wants. Google
and others are applying that to electric.
http://www.google.com/powermeter/about/
Perhaps the poster may want to call his utility
that is utilizing the AMR system and ask if they
can set up a web page with his readings on it for
him? Many of our customers provide that service,
I don't know if his utility has such a program,
but it doesn't hurt to ask. I hope that
the replies are helpful.
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s_mack |
Post subject: Re: Reading AMR RF signal... possible?
Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 12:37 pm
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Joined: Thu May 20, 2010
1:03 pm Posts: 4 |
I think you're presuming too much. Perhaps a bit
paranoid?
There's no reason to "protect"
meter readings. Its just a serial number and the
current reading - entirely non-sensitive data. There's
no privacy issue whatsoever, so the only reason
would be to ensure that company X's reader can't
ready company Y's meter. And that doesn't seem to
be the case, because most readers assure they can
read all meters using the same frequency standard,
which it appears most do.
Plus, if they wanted
to protect it so bad then why would they publish
the algorithm?
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Posted 11/12/2012
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